Five minutes with Maria Knutsson-Hall  

 

Hello, Maria, how are you?

 

I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

 

Very good, thank you. I wanted to ask you about the Spurs Stadium, which I always refer to as the new Spurs Stadium or new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, but it's actually five years old this month, I noticed - time flies! It was quite a long project for you as well, wasn't it? Can you just talk to me a little bit about the key challenges on the stadium?

 

Of course! It does feel like it happened yesterday!  I was up there very recently, and the good thing is that it actually looks like it was built yesterday. So, the quality of the stadium is certainly still intact, which I'm very pleased to see. It was a very long process, like many of these large-scale projects; it does take a long time, from the planning process down to obviously, the construction and design of it. But it was a very enjoyable process because we had a very engaging client who was very much part of the entire way and was striving for a really high standard in all aspects of the design. And that's what I worked a lot with. So, I was sort of a design guardian for the project from very early stages, through the planning process together with Haringey Council all the way through, together with the client, to the finished product. We tried to ensure that we kept a holistic view of the design, not just the detail of it, but also just never losing sight, which is sometimes easy to do on these large-scale projects. We wanted it to be as high quality as possible. So, therefore, it was important to have people across the entire years of the process, I guess. And I think that's paid off in the end, so that's good to see.

 

I was reading that your favourite elements of the scheme include the South Stand, which is, I think, the largest single stand in the UK, isn't it? 17,000 or so capacity. Was that a contributor to the atmosphere? That presumably was part of the wish list of the client? 

 

Absolutely. Very early on in the process, we established that was going to be a game changer for Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was not necessarily the upgraded top-end offers for hospitality etc.; it was actually going to be for the core fan going to the stadium. And therefore, a lot of the focus in the design from within the bowl but also on the concourses and the office, were to cater for these core fans, and the South Stand is really the heartbeat of that. So, it's creating, essentially a wall that you have seen in projects like Dortmund - that was a big reference for the design of it. It's a wall of noise and fans. And on the pitch, it's quite intimidating, hopefully, for the opponents that come to the club, but also a real asset for the team itself when they come out. So, we worked a lot to enhance that – not just with the design of the single stand, but also with features of the soffit and the ceiling of the stadium to enhance the acoustic in there. And make sure, you know, spectators are as close as possible to the action on the field of play. 

 

What's been the feedback over those five years? Everything I've heard has been very positive. Maybe less so about the approaches to the ground. That's not your issue, but I think there's an issue with dispersion, hasn’t there of fans, and actually getting to the ground. But what's your feedback been on the stadium?

 

It has been very positive, I think one of the key aspects of the stadium, that has been more successful than perhaps we ever imagined is the multiuse of the stadium. And within those five years that we've just been through, we've had some very challenging times with COVID, lockdown, the stadium really not being used as it was built for. It's really shown the flexibility. I mean, they have even had the stadium as a medical centre during almost two years of lockdown and COVID. Of course, also, with the NFL moving into the building, some of the spaces really have that flexibility to be able to adjust and adapt to whatever it's facing, which has been also a very positive thing to see; that beyond the football, which has been a success, it's also been able to tackle these other challenges that it's been facing. 

 

Now, you're also passionate about inclusive design, and I also read that you've been looking at getting more diverse user groups into particularly European stadiums. Could you elaborate on both of those aspects and how you're progressing on those fronts? 

 

Sure, I mean, the inclusivity goes both for the people who use the building as their office, so the athletes or staff, etc. But also, of course, the spectators and the fans. I mean, when it comes to the spectators and the fans, a lot of this was considered for Tottenham, in particular, but also many other things that we're looking at now. But historically, football stadiums have been designed with a focus on male attendance, because that's what happened historically. So, the facilities have been very tailored towards a male crowd. So, whether that's the offer that you get in your food and drinks, or whether it's the sort of toilet facilities and also just the environment itself, you know, how you traditionally have watched football. And these games, you know, it's been... it's a very male dominating experience. Whereas, what we're trying to do now is not necessarily designing for females only or, you know, trying to see it as different groups, but we're trying to look at it holistically; that you include age groups, females, children, families, you know, people who come from different backgrounds, not just this single male or friends group of males coming to a stadium. And that's changed quite a lot of the things that we were designing. So definitely in the Tottenham Hotspur case, it has increased the quality of the offering. There is a lot more variety. It's not your usual pints and pie anymore; there is lots more to choose between. But there's also spaces that are different. So, the toilets, to start with something quite simple that you can see, there is the opportunity to a full equal split of toilets and sanitary work capacities. There are also other spaces that are more focused to families; there are family areas within the stadium, there are spaces that are more focused to perhaps children with disabilities or learning difficulties so that they have spaces where they can go if it's all too overwhelming; there are sensory rooms where they specifically can sit and calm down. And there's also just other offers within the stadium that just go beyond the normal sort of concourse experience that you get in many traditional football stadiums. And then I guess, just to touch a little bit on the athletes and the staff working in the buildings now, Tottenham hasn't been designed specifically to be used for the female team. However, it has the flexibility to swap and change over in changing rooms, because we're catering for NFL. But what we see in many stadiums now also, because the women's Super League is obviously increasing in attendance, is also becoming so much more popular with spectators is that a lot of these stadiums also need to be looking at this ‘one club’, not just a club for the main men's athletes, right? And that's also making sure that you are giving equal opportunities. Because the type of facilities that we build for elite men's sports is not necessarily what's been built, again, historically for women athletes, even though they compete at the same level. Because of attendance, because of commercial investors and engagement, it's not been regarded as high profile, and the facilities haven't been of the same quality. Whereas what we're seeing now is that there are so many studies showing that when you actually increase opportunities and increase the quality of these types of facilities, the performance will also enhance. So, with more stakeholder engagement, owners of these types of clubs understand this. They also want to start building for the women's team, which is very nice to see for us. I mean, this is something we have researched for many years, and are trying to push. But without the stakeholder and ownership engagement from our clients, of course, it's difficult to achieve. But that's definitely changing now. 

 

Hopefully, another thing that's changing is attitudes to women on site. Have you experienced any sexism over the years that you've been working on stadia? Not necessarily at Tottenham, but have you experienced that? And is the situation getting better?  

 

I think it's getting better. I mean, to answer the question, yes, simply. I think any woman who works in the construction industry has probably had some type of sexism. And even though it's not direct, or you know, I've never experienced any physical sexism as such, but the indirect notion of sexism can also be age-related, for women. It's much more so for women, I would say, than men. It's more the fact that you're not taken seriously, perhaps; not listened to. I have a pretty loud voice! (laughs) That works in my favour! But those things are definitely something that you see, almost on a daily basis, I would say ,still. But again, we just have to work to improve that.  I do think it's improving. Actually, I can say that Tottenham was an inspiration for me because of the leadership roles within Tottenham; even though Daniel Levy, is the chairman, Donna Cullen, who is also part of the board was heavily involved in the processes. They have a very sort of equal structure, actually. And that was inspiring for the project as a whole. But then, of course, within the construction industry, you have a much less equal balance between men and women, for sure.  

 

We're just up to time, so just to ask you about another string to your bow, your teaching career. What are you seeing from the students currently at the Bartlett and where you studied at Oxford Brookes, where you also lecture, I think? What's your view of the current crop? 

 

The current crop is extremely well-educated, and they want to change.  What I mean by well-educated is not just from an architecture perspective, but they know what they want in terms of change in the world when it comes to sustainability, green design, and inclusivity in equitable design, for sure. It's very interesting to see when we have a 50/50 split almost every single year, students don't come in with the understanding that the world is unequal, right? But, very quickly, when they get into the profession, these things crop up. So, I think the type of change they want to see is really positive. And it is also starting to trickle into the work industry. We have a lot of our young students and staff working here that really want to see change, and they want to see it fast. You know, they don't want to wait for these things to happen. In 2024 It should have happened yesterday! So that's really positive, I think. 

 

Brilliant. Well, that's a really positive, optimistic note to end on. So, thank you very much for your time. And congratulations again to the now five-old, Tottenham stadium! 

 

Thank you, David.