David meets Henley Halebrown associate and former RIBA Rising Star Jack Hawthorne to talk workload, international competitions, creating Dialogues – and inspiring the architects of tomorrow… 

Hi, Jack, how are you doing? 

Good, thanks. How are you? 

I'm very good, thank you. I wanted to ask you firstly about your being named a RIBA Rising Star, in 2023. How was that as an experience for you? Has it changed you or the practice? And if so, how? 

Yes, it was really exciting, and I was amongst a great cohort of people that I know and collaborated with. But it's strange to be named as an individual when you're working as part of a practice which feels really like a collaboration and a team effort. I don't feel like I've seen a measurable impact... 

No gentle ribbing from your colleagues? 

No! Well, it went completely unacknowledged in the office actually (laughs), probably just because I was a little bit embarrassed. I feel like I'm too old to be a rising star, in a way. But no, it was great; it was really good. We had an interesting conversation at the roundtable with the other members of the cohort, and I am still in touch with some of them. So, it was an honour! 

Tell me about your work currently at Henley Halebrown; you're mostly involved in housing? 

I think that's the perception, but we're actually across quite a few sectors and the practice has historically done a lot of work with adaptive reuse. That was in a way part of the origin of the office and is still very much embedded in our thinking. So, yes, we're doing a lot of housing, but we're also doing schools, for example – I was back at one last week, doing a careers evening at the Thames Christian School in Clapham - trying to dissuade the next generation of architects (laughs)! 

(laughs) Dissuade? 

Yes, put them off (laughs)! No, there are some keen students there who I think might come and do some work experience with us. So that continued relationship is really strong.  So, we do schools, adaptive reuse, mostly in the commercial sector, office buildings. But there is also an element of housing work, and then also some public buildings, more recently in Belgium, where we're working on a kind of multi-purpose community centre, which is also, as it happens, a refurbishment. Refurbishment is a bit of an understatement; it's a complete reworking of an existing building. We're also working on a really interesting project in Winchester, which has got a masterplanning element. So, I think actually, in terms of the sectors, we're across a broader range than perhaps people realise. 

Yes, I meant you personally, just looking at some blurb that was written about you at the time of that Rising Star award; there was quite a lot of mention of housing, particularly for you... 

Well, that was probably in the context of the Frampton Park Estate project, which at the time we'd recently finished, and they were getting a bit of recognition. Those were projects that I took from the early planning stages through to completion, so I'd had a lot of coalface experience. And so, yes, that was perhaps the focus of the Rising Star. 

You mentioned the international picture just now. You're doing a bunch of competitions as well to focus on that a little are you? Where is your lens focused? 

I would say broadly northern Europe. We won a competition in Belgium a couple of years ago; that's the community centre that I mentioned. We've done a few competitions there. Last year we did a really interesting competition in Paris with a local young office called AAVP, but we did one in Berlin as well, and then another one in Flanders. So yes: Belgium, Germany, France, most recently is where we're looking. 

David Taylor 

Is this a conscious move? 

It's a bit chicken and egg, I guess. Certainly, pursuing competitions that are specifically of interest, either because the brief looks interesting, the site looks interesting. There's an angle in terms of society and an ability that we think we could bring. But then opportunities also present themselves. We get approached occasionally by collaborators or clients that are looking to shortlist a few practices. I'm particularly interested in working in Europe. I think that sort of cultural exchange, you learn a lot from it. And, you know, there's nuances, there's things that they do differently there, but which I think we could learn from, and then vice versa. So, it's always interesting to be involved in that dialogue. We always collaborate with local design partners. So, there's that enriching part of practice, which is really enjoyable. We also did a competition in Ostrava for a town hall last year, which we got third prize for. That was a really interesting one as well. 

The reason I asked whether it was a conscious thing was, I suppose, in part, to get you to reflect on the British market as it were, and the ‘scene’. Could you characterise where we are with the sectors that you're involved with? Broad question, I know, but just to give some sort of barometer. 

We've got some substantial projects with Hackney which are in stage four leading up to Gateway Two, and they're going really steady. We're lucky that those projects are moving forward. I know that there's lots of issues with viability at the moment, particularly on housing. And so, as a result, I suppose, we've seen over the last couple of years, student accommodation has become more prevalent. It seems to be commercially more feasible. We've recently finished and are still working on a couple of student housing schemes in Stratford, and that sector still seems to be active.  I know that it's tough; I feel like we're quite lucky at the moment to be really busy, and I don't know whether that necessarily reflects the wider trend. But my experience at the moment is that we're busy. And we are seeing things moving forward. 

Couple of last things. You work on the Dialogues talks series. Tell me about that. Why do you do this? 

It's something that I think the practice did a version of before I joined, and when I came here, I think it's 11 years ago, I had been working in Switzerland for a year, and there was something very collegiate in where I was. There were these kinds of informal conversations happening between practices and it felt like it was a really healthy, exciting model. And I wanted to continue that. It was not like I originated the idea; there was something in the office, you know, Simon (Henley) and Gavin (Hale-Brown) had been doing something like it for years. I was enthusiastic, fresh out of Uni, and just floated the idea, and then it snowballed. It's become quite an important fixture. I think it really enriches the culture of the office. I think it's nice to have an environment where architects can just in a way, unapologetically talk about architecture with a capital ‘A’, without sounding too pretentious. There's so much discourse and conversation around the discipline which isn't so focused on architecture itself. It's, I think, great to have that environment, and people keep coming and seem really interested in it. It's just an interesting opportunity to hear from people that might not otherwise talk. And I think there's something about it happening in the studio, in the office environment, which is a kind of live working office that people seem to really engage with. 

You've had talks from people like Tonkin Liu in the past, haven't you? 

They talked last year, yes; we've had some great people. We've been really lucky, and people are always really generous and willing to participate. We've got a few good ones lining up for the year ahead, which I can't mention! 

Final question, then. Just going back to your little talk at the school - what was the reaction from the kids? Were they inspired by the world of architecture, from you? 

Yes, I think they were. We've had lot of follow up interest. And, yes, I think we've got a couple of them coming in to do work experience. So that was really exciting. There's a lot of nervousness about AI. 

From the kids? 

Yes, and the teachers, I think not specifically in relation to architecture, but just in relation to the world of work, and what sort of environment they're going to be entering into, and how AI is affecting working culture. And so, yeah, there was a lot of nervousness around that. 

David Taylor 

What was your response to that? 

Well, what I'm seeing is that I'm reassured by how mediocre AI is at creative architectural practice, in a way. I'm sure it's developing at breakneck speed, and before long, it will be able to do things better than it can now. I think it's supportive. It's a helpful tool for the administrative side of practice. But I haven't yet seen it do anything that's blown me away in terms of creative thinking and problem-solving. I also just feel one of the things I said was not to underestimate the power of the old ways. Hand drawing, model making; it's amazing how effective they are as tools, not just in the lofty sense, but if you're in a meeting and you need to communicate an idea, and you can sketch it, you can communicate something in seconds that you would struggle to do with words, reminding them that those skills are incredibly powerful and useful. And for AI to be seen as a panacea that overwrites all of these other things, feels dangerous. I think it has to coexist, and we use the right tool for the right job in a way, 

Yes, absolutely, long may that remain so. Thank you very much, Jack, that was a fascinating conversation - and good luck with it all! 

Cheers. Good to chat to you, David.